User talk:Zc456/Siming Online

is this page really necessary?
is this page really necessary? it seems like a waste to document something that has just been created out of spite, and has not included any tangable change in years for the number of times it has been rebooted.

specifically, a lot of the issues this projects claims to fix seem to just want to change thigs for change's sake, not for any real reason. for example, one issue states that the code can be improved by "removing locking entirely", and "multithreading some other way", misunderstanding that all thread-safe abstract data types use locking when it is impossible to perform an atomic operation (basically, anything that does not modify a single word). another issue assumes that pcls or .net standard must be used to create a portable application. if this were true, mono would not have been able to run any .net applications for most of its lifespan. pcls have a specific use, but it is important to justify a change before making it.

i feel that if there were any real tangible change that could be achieved here, the effort would be better put into the already established project, freeso, as a pull request. it seems that a lot of criticisms of the project have no backing (why do you complain freeso is in "dependancy hell" when there is a clear dependancy hierarchy? why do your plans to modularize it not cite any clear large scale issues?).

if the issues that had bo backing were not present, would you even have a reason to fork in the first place? why does it have to be like this? i think the whole idea of your project is worth rethinking, if is based on malice as i suspect. the tso community does not need any more pointless turmoil.

- a concerned citizen

Out of spite? Dude, you deleted my listing before the page was even created. --Tomas CW (talk) 21:35, 7 September 2017 (EDT)

did you read my message? it's not healthy to dismiss my criticisms offhand on word choice when they are this deep rooted. - acc

since your response was posted just one minute after the message, i take it you did not read the message because it doesn't fit yout view of the world. but it is correct - you cannot continue ignoring the truth and pretending you are doing something that will benefit anyone. this won't bring you happiness either.

in addition, it is strictly forbidden to relicense to GPL from the MPL 2.0 license without the consent of all past contributors. they are simply not compatible - i would reccommend changing it back immediately.

- acc

there's no pretense that this project will benefit anyone - the whole point of the project is one of personal achievement and entertainment - and your continuing interest in this is quite amusing in and of itself, so please do go on wasting your time pointlessly poo-pooing other peoples project ideas. the license point is sound though - but outside that, you shouldn't give two shits about this project. -- an amused netizen

it's such a shame that you're not even aware of your own warped mindset - you have still ignored the base issues behind making this project in the first place. it is incredibly unhealthy to always believe what you are doing is the right thing, and simply ignore all criticisms. you will never achieve anything like this.

doing something original and meaningful would be a real project of "personal achievement", to break your string of constant embarassments stemming from misguided attempts to fix what is not broken. in fact, starting from scratch would be a great way to do this, rather than simply copying an established codebase and making changes that are either miniscule or that you cannot follow through with. what you are doing right now does not come across as any kind of personal achievement, since a striking majority of the project (the complicated parts) have been completed by other people. moving code around is not an achievement. if it is not meant to benefit the community, *why post it here on the community wiki before you have completed any work*? why post it on github before you have completed any work? if it is personal achievement, there's no point in making an incomplete project public on github, as you shouldn't want contributors.

there's still time to make something that benefits someone, including yourself. a smaller project would make more sense - im sure you could think of something if you put your mind to it. - acc

as i recall your little project started out as a fork of a codebase over a petty feud about networking code - you started with minor changes to someone else's codebase, didn't you? i don't see the difference, except that was then when no "complete" project existed, and "now" just because you and your big ego has made a shitty unoptimized turd of a game nobody else can have a look in! don't forget your roots, scratch boy. -- laughing in your face

who do you think i am? i didn't create freeso... i haven't even touched the codebase. it's impressive that i managed to get you to act like a child, though. from what i've heard, that's not very difficult.

you can't delegitimize a fork that someone made after they contributed most of the codebase. additionally, someone's "roots" aren't typically rage forking an mmo. as amusing as it is, you guys stupid drama train needs to derail eventually... have you ever considered just doing something else with your time?

my point restated: should this really be on this wiki? i don't think so, and from what has been said, you should feel the same. -acc

Drama. Just drama. --Tomas CW (talk) 17:53, 8 September 2017 (EDT)

All I wanted was to play The Sims Online. If I'm not gonna get that from FreeSO, then I'll fork it and go my own path. I'm not gonna reinvent the wheel just because you're mad at me for doing so. I just wanted to be left alone after I was banned but it seems I can't even get a break here. So grow up all of you! --Tomas CW (talk) 18:24, 8 September 2017 (EDT)

you can still play the sims online. can't you play it right now? you don't need to do something like this to play tso. if you want it to be more complete you could always complete those features and submit pull requests to freeso. - acc

If anything, the things that need fixing should be done first, and in my opinion you shouldn't just keep them to your own fork. Submitting a pull request to FreeSO would be highly beneficial to many more people and wouldn't make changes so closed off and limited to your own small server (though this may not technically be the case if your code is open source). Now if everyone would stop arguing that would be great, since we've had a fair share of drama already in the TSO community in the past and I really don't think we need any more. - Alex.

You wanted me no where near your code. You know that. So I forked it. --Tomas CW (talk) 18:49, 8 September 2017 (EDT)

You might want to note that it's a different person speaking this time. - Alex.

Until you decided to actually use your name, the only one here who wasn't afraid to reveal himself was me. --Tomas CW (talk) 18:55, 8 September 2017 (EDT)

What? I have nothing to do with Concerned... - Alex.

Personally, that's kinda what I wish. In that everyone stop betraying and snitching on everyone else just because of one person managed bring back a dead game. It is just a game. A game that we all love but it is just a game none the less. It is all nonsense.

I'm banned from FreeSO. I get that. But Rhys continues to attack my friends and I with no room for us to defend ourselves. Nonsense. --Tomas CW (talk) 19:07, 8 September 2017 (EDT)

i think your way forward is to quit obsessing over the developer of freeso, forking the game because he does not like you, and then clearly making up techincal reasons as excuses which paint freeso as flawed when it is not. if there is any meaningful change to be made to the game, i'm sure a pull request with that feature would gladly be appopriately reviewed, and even accepted. i'm not saying to continue your current developments, because i do not believe they would benefit freeso at all. but any development of features or bugfixes, as long as it works and is clean, would be accepted. large scale project structure changes for an mmo scale game should only be attempted by experienced programmers. this is how i think things would work with freeso if anyone submitted any pull requests, as it is the way any oss works. - acc

I'm not obsessing over Rhys. Alex has talked about Rhys way more then I have to the point of annoying my friends in my own personal Discord. I'm just trying move on with my own fork. I put way too much effort into TSOR, NioTSO, Project Dollhouse and finally FreeSO to just give up because everyone in the community seems to disagree with me. Don't you dare tell me this is about Rhys. --Tomas CW (talk) 19:25, 8 September 2017 (EDT)

how much effort have you put in? from the forever-in-limbo state of this project, where a lot seems to have been said over the past year but not done, i can't imagine that you did much to contribute to those projects apart from the fact that you were there. lots of other people were there too, and even made launchers like you did, i believe. these people are still happy, and playing the game right now - i think you need to rethink your attitude towards these projects and what you "need" to do, and can't "give up" on. when there's not much to give up on, what is there to lose starting something productive?

i have been keeping track of the drama all year. from anger fueled blog posts, to jabs in github issues, to continued jabs on your twitter about freeso. yes, i would say this is about rhys. it was apparent to anyone, but apparently not yourself. - acc

Someone just rebranded a reimaplnation of my favorite game on April Fools for the sole purpose of jabbing at me. So forgive me is there a little jab in my issues. I'm still waiting for them to say "I'm sorry." That being said, I'm doing this all on my own. Of course it's going to be in limbo. Feel free to help, though. --Tomas CW (talk) 19:45, 8 September 2017 (EDT)

Moderator response
Hello,

I agree with most of the points raised by acc and Alex, who have mostly been very polite. i.e. "Siming" Online (did you mean: Simming?) is not notable and so shouldn't be advertised on Niotso Wiki's "Projects" infobox. Creating an unlisted article is okay, I think, so the "Siming" Online article is free to stay unlisted (feel free to post your thoughts), although I reserve the right to reverse that opinion.

I have locked the Projects infobox page and de-listed Siming Online from it.

I want to be clear there is nothing wrong with forking FreeSO--for any reason. However, advertising that it is / will be "better than FreeSO" better have some good results to show. ;)

If you have forked FreeSO, as a matter of courtesy, here is my advice when writing your project description (a.k.a. Readme.md):
 * Don't attack FreeSO.
 * Don't claim that it is / will be better than FreeSO. Instead, use language such as: " will differ from FreeSO in several important aspects. (*) Rewrite components to use event-driven models instead of multithreading. (*) Blah blah. Many of these changes are experimental and may be reverted if they are found to be inferior."

By the way, soon we will move Niotso Wiki to TSO-E Wiki (http://wiki.tso-e.com/). The wiki will be more geared towards documenting the TSO protocol, in-line with the TSO-SE project (#tso-se on Discord). I will post a status update on the home page of the wiki later today. Fatbag (talk) 12:55, 9 September 2017 (EDT)

When I checked this wiki after Alex told me what was happening, it was like my birthday and christmas came at once. Wow. It's funny how my name comes up when I'm not even here... I especially like the messages from the user who is clearly Jack ("nobody else can have a look in!"?), which are interesting given how many apology html pages I've recieved. I'm glad I always believed they were insincere, and that actually learning how to program is something I should be ashamed of.

It's great the wiki is continuing in some other form. While I've always believed FreeSO is documentation in itself for a lot of things, it would make sense to document the formats and behaviours I've worked out specifically in English, for those who are not familiar with C# or just have a passing interest. Would the wiki also be valid for TS1 discoveries? I've worked out a few formats specific to the TS1 house/neighbourhood saves, and the behaviour of the TS1 inventory primitive. The only place I found to easily submit this kind of thing was the MTS wiki... Which is for The Sims 2. The ideal place would be simstech.sourceforge.net, (the REAL simstech) but obviously I cannot edit that, and it may be difficult to contact the owner. --RHY3756547 (talk) 19:13, 9 September 2017 (EDT)

It's hard to do a fork and go your own path with a project few people who have I know who at least have some idea on how to help are to busy lusting over the guy who I just forked from. Here I am waving my hands in the air for help and all they can think of is the other guy with one of them snitching back everything I do. It does not help my mood. That's all it's ever been and it's been nothing but struggle because of it. --Tomas CW (talk) 23:45, 10 September 2017 (EDT)

All that being said, I am done. The "fake" SimsTek is gone. I can't get rid of the wiki without going to support. You go have your fun. --Tomas CW (talk) 00:32, 11 September 2017 (EDT)

Looking up to someone because they produce both clean code and consistent progress is not the same as "lusting over" someone. If you really didn't want anyone to "snitch" back on everything you do, the simplest thing would be to keep a private repository (on GitLab for free, on GitHub for a cost, self-hosted, etc) and make everything public when there has been some progress to show. No game developer simply goes, "hey guys I'm going to start making a game soon and it'll be great", because to show someone that "it'll be great" there would have to already be some considerable progress and work done. I don't understand how you seem to expect everyone to believe that your project is (or will be) better than FreeSO if you can't show any progress apart from GDDs and snippets of code. Nobody is attacking you here - simply advising that you wait until your project is actually "notable" and has progress before you go round claiming that it is. I'm genuinely sorry if I've at all insulted or hurt you in any way, but you should learn that you can't just expect things to happen like that and for your project to suddenly be the best thing around when there's very little to show to compliment that. Neither was I "snitching back" everything you do (you seem to like the word 'snitch' a lot?) - it's not difficult to navigate GitHub and find out what someone is working on. In case you didn't know, all your contributions to a project are logged on your profile page if they're done on a public organisation. - Alex.

Sorry
I have gotten no guidance in programming and or learning to program. It's all been me. I have been banned but continued to be mocked and feel like I am spied on. Since someone snitching to Rhys over everything I did even when wasn't in FreeSO was how I was kicked from it. So sorry if some of it has been unhinged. --Tomas CW (talk) 16:44, 9 September 2017 (EDT)

Free
I thought I was free when I was banned. --Tomas CW (talk) 23:50, 8 September 2017 (EDT)

inspiring quotes #353 <3